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Note: All the stuff I am discussing here comes up of having spent quite a bit of time in the OG spoiler section. It's mostly speculation, based on not a huge amount of actually spoilery fact, but there are some definite spoiler comments in here. So read at your own risk.
Also, I shall try to keep the spoiler stuff I mention here to a minimum, but the links back to the OG will have rather more spoilers, so watch out if you follow them.
Now, firstly, about that episode title I mentioned in my last post...
The title in question is the episode 12 (the first part of the finale) one: The Sound of Drums. When I first read it, I found it terribly fascinating for reasons that took a little while to pick up on, but after a little bit it struck me why: I was reminded of the title "A Sound of Thunder".
For those who aren't familiar with it, A Sound of Thunder is a terribly famous short story by Ray Bradbury about time travel. It's also I believe one of the original sources for the "Butterfly Effect" concept, and basically an utterly classic bit of sci-fi.
Now, why does the fact that the penultimate episode of S3 of Doctor Who might be a reference to some classic sci-fi interest me so (apart from the awesomeness of, you know, referencing classic sci-fi)?
Well, if you don't want to read it yourself, the basic idea of the story is that a a time-travel business is taking tourists back to the past for brief sojourns. The protagonist, Eckels (which I just realised is pronounced the same as "Eccles" *facepalm*) goes on one of these trips, but while doing so, gets upset and temporarily leaves the path. Then, when the trip is finished, he goes back to his own time, to find a horribly changed future - and realises that when he went of the path, he stepped on a butterfly. He caused this.
Why is this relevent?
Because the major change is that instead of the benevolent, democratic positive leader being elected, instead a fascist style dictator named Deutscher has been. Because of Eckles' interference.
And, going by the the spoiler reports for episode 12, it sees the election of Mr Saxon as British PM. In a time that the Doctor originally said was supposed to be ruled by the positive, benevolent Harriet Jones. Who fell from power because of his actions.
Can you see what I'm getting at here? Classic sci-fi referencing for the motherfucking win.
(Also, a random minor note: Both Saxon, and Deutscher have been used as a cultural description.)
Now, I could just be seeing patterns in things that aren't there, but, well, make up your own mind.
I still love the title "The Sound of Drums".
My second (and more spoilery) bit of spec. This one to do with potential series themes - or at least linkages.
To start with, in the latest DWM, we have the official preview. I haven't seen it, so I can't comment to a huge amount on it, but someone at the OG has supplied some info from it, including this bit of dialogue between Martha and the Doctor (which on a Martha character level I love, but that's beside the point):
Martha: What, people call you 'the Doctor'?
The Doctor: Yep
Martha: Well. I'm not. Far as I'm concerned you've got to earn that title.
Now, just a little while back - ie. the Cardiff filming - there was apparently a scene where the Doctor and co were watching a screen, whilst the ubiquitous Mr Saxon on it read out this speech (The screen and contents would be due to add in post-production, I assume, but for timing and reactions someone on set read the speech out)
On-screen Mr Saxon: "This country has been sick. This country needs healing. In fact, I would even go so far as to say that what this country needs is a Doctor!"
(reference here, but be warned for some very big spoilers in that thread)
Now, seeing as this is apparently Mr Saxon's victory speech, it's pretty obvious that he's implying that he is the Doctor for the "sick" country.I'm going to leave linking this to Harriet Jones's TCi speech for another time. But, well, filming shots have the Doctor and co rather less than happy about what's going on - plus Saxon is (from Runaway Bride) a shoot first sort of person. And I'm not even getting into the rumours about the Master and all.
But... we have a Doctor-in-training as Companion. We have in the first episode her commenting that Doctor is a title to be earnt. We have a Doctor Lazarus, messing around with the natural order of things. We have an adaptation of Human Nature, the story in which the Doctor gives up being the Doctor, but in the end takes on that mantle yet again. We have in the finale someone possibly less than nice claiming the title of Doctor for themself.
Gee, does it look like there might be a running theme going on here?
Again, I might be completely wrong on this. But I'm currently liking my odds.
Also, I shall try to keep the spoiler stuff I mention here to a minimum, but the links back to the OG will have rather more spoilers, so watch out if you follow them.
Now, firstly, about that episode title I mentioned in my last post...
The title in question is the episode 12 (the first part of the finale) one: The Sound of Drums. When I first read it, I found it terribly fascinating for reasons that took a little while to pick up on, but after a little bit it struck me why: I was reminded of the title "A Sound of Thunder".
For those who aren't familiar with it, A Sound of Thunder is a terribly famous short story by Ray Bradbury about time travel. It's also I believe one of the original sources for the "Butterfly Effect" concept, and basically an utterly classic bit of sci-fi.
Now, why does the fact that the penultimate episode of S3 of Doctor Who might be a reference to some classic sci-fi interest me so (apart from the awesomeness of, you know, referencing classic sci-fi)?
Well, if you don't want to read it yourself, the basic idea of the story is that a a time-travel business is taking tourists back to the past for brief sojourns. The protagonist, Eckels (which I just realised is pronounced the same as "Eccles" *facepalm*) goes on one of these trips, but while doing so, gets upset and temporarily leaves the path. Then, when the trip is finished, he goes back to his own time, to find a horribly changed future - and realises that when he went of the path, he stepped on a butterfly. He caused this.
Why is this relevent?
Because the major change is that instead of the benevolent, democratic positive leader being elected, instead a fascist style dictator named Deutscher has been. Because of Eckles' interference.
And, going by the the spoiler reports for episode 12, it sees the election of Mr Saxon as British PM. In a time that the Doctor originally said was supposed to be ruled by the positive, benevolent Harriet Jones. Who fell from power because of his actions.
Can you see what I'm getting at here? Classic sci-fi referencing for the motherfucking win.
(Also, a random minor note: Both Saxon, and Deutscher have been used as a cultural description.)
Now, I could just be seeing patterns in things that aren't there, but, well, make up your own mind.
I still love the title "The Sound of Drums".
My second (and more spoilery) bit of spec. This one to do with potential series themes - or at least linkages.
To start with, in the latest DWM, we have the official preview. I haven't seen it, so I can't comment to a huge amount on it, but someone at the OG has supplied some info from it, including this bit of dialogue between Martha and the Doctor (which on a Martha character level I love, but that's beside the point):
Martha: What, people call you 'the Doctor'?
The Doctor: Yep
Martha: Well. I'm not. Far as I'm concerned you've got to earn that title.
Now, just a little while back - ie. the Cardiff filming - there was apparently a scene where the Doctor and co were watching a screen, whilst the ubiquitous Mr Saxon on it read out this speech (The screen and contents would be due to add in post-production, I assume, but for timing and reactions someone on set read the speech out)
On-screen Mr Saxon: "This country has been sick. This country needs healing. In fact, I would even go so far as to say that what this country needs is a Doctor!"
(reference here, but be warned for some very big spoilers in that thread)
Now, seeing as this is apparently Mr Saxon's victory speech, it's pretty obvious that he's implying that he is the Doctor for the "sick" country.
But... we have a Doctor-in-training as Companion. We have in the first episode her commenting that Doctor is a title to be earnt. We have a Doctor Lazarus, messing around with the natural order of things. We have an adaptation of Human Nature, the story in which the Doctor gives up being the Doctor, but in the end takes on that mantle yet again. We have in the finale someone possibly less than nice claiming the title of Doctor for themself.
Gee, does it look like there might be a running theme going on here?
Again, I might be completely wrong on this. But I'm currently liking my odds.
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One quick question - does Outpost Gallifrey make people log in to read posts? I'm getting a piss-off-stranger message when I click on the link you posted to the Saxon speech thread. I'm not a member of that forum.
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Yeah, the OG is a member only forum (though membership is free). I copied all the really vital stuff over here, but there are other spoilers lurking around there.
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Do you reckon OG is worth joining? I have a vague and probably pretty inaccurate impression of the kinds of discussion going down in there. Are they generally pro-TW or anti?
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I like the OG, mainly because it has a sort of... democratic batshittery. No matter what opinion you have, how obscure your like/dislike is, there will be others there who share it. And are very vocal about it. So, it has very vocal both pro- and anti camps set up. Erm... it's probably a slight more anti than pro, but not by much, and there are enough people in favour that you can have plenty of cheery happy talk. Though it's definitely anti-Chibnall.
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I like the sound of Martha. If she's going to be the opposite of Rose's *OMG DOCTOR YOU'RE THE BEST I WUV YOU!!*, I like her already.
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We dunno much about Martha. There's probably more in the DWM, but I have to wait until it shows up down under.
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XWA
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Oh, please, please, PLEASE let this season be the payoff on that!
And thanks for bringing all the OG stuff here; the only reason I'm not over there is because I can't keep up with everything on LJ; I don't need to try to drink from two firehoses at once!
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I can't believe that I'm about to tribute Rusty with some really devious subtlety, but I hope, I hope, I hope he has been quietly building this in the background all along...
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I don't think it's that so much as the fact that he has a bit of a tendency to write subtexts into his stories that he never really mentions. I mean, look at all the stuff about the inevitability of loss and change in S2, the nastier stuff in Love & Monsters, the fact that the Doctor blatantly manipulates Pete to look after Rose and Jackie in the finale...
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I love the idea that the Doctor might be faced with some consequences for a change, but I wouldn't bet on it, afaik the writers thought losing Rose was the ultimate price he paid already. Maybe Saxon is just trying to lure the Doctor out? Wouldn't be the first time someone tried to reach him like that. Now, how can I prove that Saxon has to be an alias of the Master?
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You're probably correct about Deutscher, but yes, you have to wonder why Saxon was chosen.
As far the consequences stuff... RTD has a tendency to not mention it or anything, but being rude to Queen V was what caused Torchwood to start, which did eventually lead to the loss of Rose. It's like a lot of the S2 thematic stuff, which was never mentioned outside, but showed up in the episodes - I mean, just consider all that School Reunion implied. Or Love & Monsters...
And I have no idea about how true the Saxon-Master rumours are, but they are fun to play with. And make this spec even more interesting.
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If you lay that alongside the Deutscher/Hitler comparison: Hitler only tried to invade Britain, he never actually succeeded.
And didn't the Saxons originate from somewhere in Germany as well? (NiederSachsen?)
Someone, somewhere: (the OG? Your journal?) suggested the following anagram: Mister Saxon: Master no six. It's not proof, but at least it's something in the right direction? :-)
XWA
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Also, didn't the saxons 'invade' Britain but were in the end integrated into society and enriched England's culture? I suck in history, sorry.
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Bring on Season 3!!!
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Drive-by posting to say that this is splendid and if it does not come to fruition in some form, I shall be sorely disappointed. I think I have to go lie down now.
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But I certainly hope it's true, too.
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Bringing them in, we have seeming confirmation of the "Master As Doctor's Mirror" theory. How does our Doctor earn the title? I'm hoping pinko leftiness. Or, y'know, a PhD.
But I doubt they'll directly address the Doctor's screwups, anymore than S2 did. Children must want The Doctor, dammit!
Sidenote: Four-n-bod is terrifying, no? Ten must observe Monklike celibacy in Billie's absence! And shed tears for no-one else!
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Yes, that works. If the Daleks are the Doctor's enemy because they are the antithesis of him, the Master is because he's the Doctor through a dark mirror - what he might have been, might be. It would fit, thematically, if my spec is correct.
Four-n-bod is terrifying, no? Ten must observe Monklike celibacy in Billie's absence! And shed tears for no-one else!
She's terribly persistant, isn't she? Most the Rosefen are starting to get over their insistance, but she's clinging to it tight.
I want to see her reaction to Human Nature.
I so hope the have the Doctor getting engaged like the book...From:
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*ahem*
I've been thinking this week about RTD and the season-long memes -- "Bad Wolf" was begun by accident, but that was immediately followed by the "Torchwood" meme, which most people assumed was set-up for the spin-off, but actually turned out to be underpinning the finale.
Now we seem to have a double-meme, Saxon plus the underlying theme of the meaning of Doctorhood.
This is ... interesting.
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And thinking about it, I do recall an interview that mentioned more exploration of the Doctor's character in S3.
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nevre thought of some of this stuf before, really has my head swimming now wondering what they're gonna do in S3 :)
I hope you're right on a lot of it actually...