Quick thoughts

[drakyndra]

Just some quick thoughts on The Satan Pit after my initial viewing, some on my opinion of the episode, on some on the repsonses I have seen so far.

Firstly: I liked it muchly. I don't think as much as the first part, because the build up is always creepier than the pay-off, and I am a fan of creepy and atmosphere when it comes to this sort of thing. That said, this two parter still rates very, very highly for me.

And it made you think a bit, had some great moments, had some moving moments, had a distinct lack of things that annoyed me, though it wasn't perfect.

However, the annoyance factor has shown up for a few people on my flist, and like with Girl in the Fireplace - but from different people - it's about an interpretation that completely bewilders me.


It's about that bit near the end, when the Doctor sets the Beast free, and in doing so dooms it. For some reason, because of the line the Doctor comes up with here - the "I believe in her!" one, some people seem to be perceiving this as the Doctor putting Rose ahead of the Universe.

And I haven't the faintest idea how they are coming to this conclusion.

Yeah, it wasn't the best line. But if the Tenth Doctor is anything, it's talk. He babbles and speechifies and goes on, and half the time he is talking utter rubbish. It's just what he does. But look at the actions here. He saves teh universe from the Beast. And yet he has no idea how he can escape, if the others are safe, if Rose is safe. And yet he still does it. Because it is the right thing to do.

I mean, even earlier, he said it himself (I won't quote anymore, because I can't remember the exact dialogue). The temptation here, the judgement is if he is willing to destroy the Beast, even if it means taking away Rose's chance of escape. Would you let evil live on, if it would save someone you love (platonically or otherwise)?

And unlike last season, he doesn't let someone else choose for him. He doesn't cringe back from it. He makes the choice, he chooses to let the prison fall, Rose's safety fall. And it is now he says he believes in her.

And why not? It wouldn't be the first time she's pulled off the impossible. Yeah, Rose annoys me. Yeah, she comes off as other a bit useless, or a Sue in a lot of situations. But she got into the TARDIS, adn destroyed the Daleks. She survived being shut in with a Dalek. She does stupid-but-brave things quite often, and the Doctor has faith she might pull it off now.

That's what it comes down to: He doesn't hesitate here. He knows what must be done, and does it. He saves the Universe despite the fact it could kill Rose. And he believes that she will survive, somehow. It's a mixture of his optimistic nature, his faith in humanity, and what he's seen from Rose.

And at no point do I ever see him deciding to put Rose ahead of the Universe. Hell, if it wasn't for the fact that he miraculously came across the TARDIS, they'd all be dead. Including Rose. But the Universe would be saved. He would have saved the Universe at the cost of Rose's life. And he never showed the faintest hint of regret for it.

It's pretty obvious that what's going on here is Universe > Rose (but can Rose live, pretty please?)

Yeah, it wasn't a good line to get the point across. But I can see him saying the same thing for pretty much any of his companions. Unlike a lot of the show, this isn't a blatantly shippy line - you can read your own interpretations into it. Which sort of muddied up the situation, from what I hear about the Considential.

But it's actions, not words, that count here. And the Doctor did here, as Ten, what Nine never did, to make the choice to put the greater good ahead of Rose's safety without outside prompting. It was all him there. Choosing of his own free will. And in the end, it was only sheer luck (or, according to some people, deus ex machina) that he found the TARDIS that he saved Rose.

Yes, that's right, the Doctor's actions saved the Universe and would have killed Rose if he hadn't gotten so incredibly lucky.

So, quite frankly, to the people on my flist who think the Doctor was putting Rose ahead of the Universe in this episode, I haven't the faintest clue where you are getting your ideas.

And something to keep in mind: character hate can distort perceptions just as much as character love.

Comments

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

As I said to casirafics above, I find it impossible to hate fictional characters. I can love them unreservedly, but can't ever hate them. What I get for being insanely positive, I suppose.

[misscam.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I've ever hated a fictional character, really. At least not with any passion. I can loathe real people with a deep passion easily enough, so the fictional aspect seems to be what makes me settle for just not liking some characters.

Or something, I don't know. But the vitrol at some fictional characters does surprise me a bit. In CSI fandom, there's some people that hate Sara so they feel other characters are tainted for even liking her. Well, if you'd peeked at my CSI wank reports, you'll have seen examples of some of that hate. Quite baffles me.

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

Fandom tends to make me dislike characters more than the actual character does, actually. If you bash another character to make your favourite look good, it's not going to make me think any better of your character.

It still baffles me the vehemence some people can feel, though.

[doyle_sb4.livejournal.com]

If you bash another character to make your favourite look good, it's not going to make me think any better of your character.

I'm still smarting at RTD himself doing this to Adam in The Long Game... (his original pitch says something about 'showing Adam as a bad companion to prove why Rose is so brilliant')

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

Oh yes - as a response to that, perhaps, I am rather fond of Adam. I don't think Rob thought a lot of it, either. (And seriously, it does nothing to dissuade the "Rose is RTD's Sue" image, either)

[doyle_sb4.livejournal.com]

I love Adam in Dalek (he had me at the way he says "I can't help it. I was born clever.") There would have been so much more potential in showing someone who has good intentions but is just unable to cope with the Doctor's world. Also, the original idea of him looking for medical information to help his dad would have given him so much more depth than sending the info back in time for... who knows. Money or something. Though I did like that it retrospectively made something in one of the books very amusing to me: Eight's three companions use future copies of the Financial Times to make themselves multi-millionaires on the stock market. The Doctor catches one of them at it but can't be arsed even telling them off. I bet he was only picking on Adam because Rose fancied him... *emo*

I've owed Adam'n'Mickey fic for a ficathon for over a year, I do need to get around to finishing it...

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

It's a rather arrogant thing to say, but it's the sort of thing the Doctor says all the time, isn't it? And the original idea was so much more interesting, I have to agree. And I should have remembered that bit from the books (That's one of the few Doctor Who books I actually have read). And I am with you on the Doctor-picking-on-Adam-cos-Rose-likes-him thing.

A few weeks ago, Rob and I were plotting the grand return of Adam, actually.

[doyle_sb4.livejournal.com]

Was he Davros? *hopes*

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

*grins* Most likely.

Nah, I can't remember what we said. I do remember that Rob had decided he would write the script for that happy, happy event. No-one would take it from him, dammit!

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

*eyetwitch* That's probably the thing that put me off Rose for good. Came close to making me hate the Doctor, which is saying a lot.