Interesting thoughts about post-Doomsday fic

[drakyndra]

I haven't been reading as much fic as of late - namely, since Doomsday aired. Partially because of the inevitable badfic wave which is swamping fandom, but mostly because even some fic writers who I normally quite like are taking their fics in directions I am not entirely comfortable with.

And I was having a bit of difficulty in expressing why.

However, then I stumbled across Battle of Wills (which is a highly amusing parody of said fics, by the way, and I'll recommend it to anyone), and castrovalva9 managed to explain the summary of said parody exactly why these fics weren't working for me.


"I've read quite a few post-"Doomsday" stories by now. While the odd one here and there has been outstanding, the plots of many horrify me. You've probably seen (perhaps even written!) some of the stories I mean: the ones where Rose spends most of her time bemoaning her meaningless life, mopes around listening to sappy songs and thinking about how well they describe her pathetic existence, cuts herself or commits suicide, etc. These stories basically posit that a Doctor-less Rose is a shell who can never lead a fulfilling life, because she is not an entire person in her own right and needs the Doctor to make her whole. I think that concept is pretty insulting and shallow, and it makes it seem like the authors don't like the character of Rose for herself, that they only like her when she is an extension of the Doctor.

Which is a long way of explaining why I wrote this story. I haven't always liked Rose, but she deserves some credit and respect."

And this is exactly the same for me. Yeah, I am not a particular fan of Rose. But the way these fics have been treating her is horrific. Aside from the rather offensive implication that the ordinary life isn't good enough for Rose (Dude, evem the Doctor can express how precious that is), the fact that people seem so content to make Rose wallow in her grief, or to fix things seems to show a remarkable lack of respect for the character.

And the remark about Rose only being liked as an extension of the Doctor - a terrifying thought, really, from the so-called fans of Rose, but it would account for a disturbingly large amount of reactions and fics.


So, to everyone else, thought, opinion?

Comments

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

Just ours the cautionary version seems to fit the rest of the season a bit better. Where "a bit" is "quite a huge lot."

Aye. It also might explain certain shippers disappointment - we aren't expecting a happy ending, so we don't find the ending "wrong." The rabid batshit Rosefen could also probably be covered by this.

It's like one or the other is a trophy, innit? Which happens in all fandoms, but it's really noticable when it's from people claiming to love Rose as a character in her own right.

It's a bit... disturbing.

People get annoyed with fic that positions her as one of the people the Doctor has loved, but at least that stuff's showing her a bit of respect by assuming he might think she's quite good as a person.

Very true. It's the OTP versus just another love thing. If she isn't the only one he has loved, it decreases her specialness. Or something.

Actually, this reminds me of an inherant hypocrisy in some of the shippers arguments (to shippers on my flist: No, not you, I'm talking the OTP crazy ones here). If, as they claim, that saying that the Doctor having a romantic love for Rose does not make her any more special than any of the other, supposedly non-romantic, relationships he's had with past Companions, why is it they get so angry at the suggestion that the Doctor and Rose's relationship isn't romantic?

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

It also might explain certain shippers disappointment - we aren't expecting a happy ending, so we don't find the ending "wrong." The rabid batshit Rosefen could also probably be covered by this.

I wasn't expecting it to be that horrid, yo. I was thinking maybe she'd get to grow up and walk but yeah if the happy ending is "stays forever"? Never expecting that to happen.


Very true. It's the OTP versus just another love thing. If she isn't the only one he has loved, it decreases her specialness. Or something.

And, srsly, what the fuck is that about? Nine hundred years, people! It's pretty fucking unlikely he's been magically saving himself for someone he's never even met. "Oh, I'd better not, Jamie. It's just that I might blow up my planet at some point and bond with this woman and obviously I have to save myself for her. Emotionally as well as physically."

(I've seen a lot of "she never loved Mickey!" as well, and surely she must have at least at some point?)


If, as they claim, that saying that the Doctor having a romantic love for Rose does not make her any more special than any of the other, supposedly non-romantic, relationships he's had with past Companions, why is it they get so angry at the suggestion that the Doctor and Rose's relationship isn't romantic?

So maybe the correct response to "Well, obviously I don't think it means he loves her more" is "True. And it's quite obvious he loved her less than he loved Sarah. *innocent look*"

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

I wasn't expecting it to be that horrid, yo.

I tend to flip between two thoughts on the ending, one is the rather bleak Cautionary Tale one, the other being the Necessary Seperation/Grief of Loss one I meta-ed on. It might be doublethink to some extent, but I think it's a case of... direction, maybe? The two readings are directed to different people, and the Grief one tends to be more the story's implication for those in it, whereas the Cautionary Tale is a bit more meta. It's also a more thematic reading, whereas the Grief is a characterisation one.

And, srsly, what the fuck is that about? Nine hundred years, people! It's pretty fucking unlikely he's been magically saving himself for someone he's never even met.

It's completely mad, that's what it is.

(I've seen a lot of "she never loved Mickey!" as well, and surely she must have at least at some point?)

I think it's more them arguing "Well, she thought she loved Mickey, but that was before she discovered what love really is." To which I say, Bitch please. Mickey is too good for her, anyway

So maybe the correct response to "Well, obviously I don't think it means he loves her more" is "True. And it's quite obvious he loved her less than he loved Sarah. *innocent look*"

Actually, I'm going to remember my hypocrisy thing here, and call people on it when the inevitable Martha vs Rose stuff happens. That'll be fun, because of the gaping flaw in the logic.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

The two readings are directed to different people, and the Grief one tends to be more the story's implication for those in it, whereas the Cautionary Tale is a bit more meta. It's also a more thematic reading, whereas the Grief is a characterisation one.

Inevitable and earned but grief-inducing?


I think it's more them arguing "Well, she thought she loved Mickey, but that was before she discovered what love really is." To which I say, Bitch please. Mickey is too good for her, anyway

Mickey would never cheat on Jake, yo. And she did treat him like crap.

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

Inevitable and earned but grief-inducing?

Aye, bit like that.

Mickey would never cheat on Jake, yo. And she did treat him like crap.

He was loyal, and devoted, and a bit clingy, and she abused that horribly. But I must say, I love the way Doctor Who now has a practically canon slash ship (excluding Jack, of course).

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

PS: "Time Lords didn’t fall in love. They found people amusing, enjoyed company, became fond of people. But what he felt for Rose burned in his blood and overrode everything. In fact, he felt he was becoming a little overwhelmed with it all."

HER VAG > BIOLOGY

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

WHAT THE SHIT?

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

I KNOW!